Chandler Bolt [00:00:02] Hey, Chandler over here. And joining me today is Brit Barron. Brit is a speaker, teacher, of course, creator and author of the book Worth It. She’s not just about helping people have honest and at times difficult conversations through a book, through her books, through her courses, through her speaking. Brit, welcome. Great to have you here.
Brit Barron [00:00:23] Hi. Happy to be here.
Chandler Bolt [00:00:25] So I guess, first off, why book like, how did you see this fitting? Was this a passion project? Did you see this as something that kind of fit into your brand and your business? Why write a book?
Brit Barron [00:00:36] Yeah, great question. I think I’m. I’m one of those people. I feel like there’s a lot of us out there who have always wanted to write a book. Like, even after the book came out, I found this like, thing from second grade that’s like what I wanted to be when I grew up. And I said, Book writer. Like, it’s just like Ben in my bones to wanna write a book. But I feel like it wasn’t until I wrote Worth It that I had anything to say. Another didn’t have anything to say. I didn’t know what to say and how to say it and why. Like, I knew I wanted to write a book at some point, but I didn’t. I didn’t know why. I didn’t know what. I didn’t know what. And so. When this opportunity sort of came to fruition, it felt just like the most exciting thing ever.
Chandler Bolt [00:01:23] Came to fruition. That was you had a deal come your way. That was you just said, Hey, I’m going to do this. What did that look like? Mm hmm.
Brit Barron [00:01:32] Yeah, it was a combination of life circumstance. So where I was heading career wise of creating my own content, sort of relying on my own ideas in the world and wanting to share things that sort of happened around the same time that I got connected to the publisher. And actually, they originally they were like, Hey, have you ever been interested in writing a book? We think you could write this one. And I was like, That doesn’t sound like a good idea, but I have a different idea. And so it sort of forced me to like, get clear about what I wanted to write, which was helpful to be sort of asked to write something that I didn’t feel was me.
Chandler Bolt [00:02:14] And so what if you don’t mind sharing? What was the idea that they were like, Hey, you should write this? And. And what was that? What was the why behind the idea that you ended up writing?
Brit Barron [00:02:28] Yeah. So what they what they wanted, which is not a bad idea. It just wasn’t a fit for for me personally. So I had just sort of had this big life experience where I spent most of my life and career in the evangelical church world and experiencing that and then sort of came out expanding my idea of the world and so left that. And their idea was sort of a guide for pastors of people of Faith who sort of had expanded their views or felt like they no longer fit inside that box, which was great a little It just wasn’t what I was sort of going for. But knowing that there was someone interested, I thought it would be a good idea for me to write a book, just sort of like catapulted me into thinking like, Well, what do I want to write? Yeah, you know.
Chandler Bolt [00:03:25] Yeah. How did you get connected with the publisher? And then how did that first deal kind of come to fruition?
Brit Barron [00:03:32] Yeah, great question. So I actually spoke I was speaking at a conference and there is an acquisitions person from the publisher that is my first book with in the audience actually scoping out another one of the speakers. And as luck would have it, I’ve performed to the best of my ability and kinds attention. And so after that, during the conference, he was like, Hey, you would do want to talk about writing? And I was like, Well, okay, So is very lucky is very providential, and I think it’s an experience I’ll probably never have again. I told you I’m kind of working on a second project and that those are nine day experiences. So it was kind of cool to, to have that and, and to have now something to judge it against.
Chandler Bolt [00:04:22] Hmm. I’m going to put a pin in that and a little Yes. When we come back to that freaky variance that landed the book deal. So, you know, looking at a lot of your content, you know, you got you get a TED talk as well beyond say taught me a.
Brit Barron [00:04:41] Lot beyond say talking about race.
Chandler Bolt [00:04:43] Yeah yeah. Well be honest. Tell me about race. You’ve got a lot of really good like anti-racism diversity, inclusion content. I think from the outside looking in, I would just think that that would be the book that you would write versus world, right? Yeah. And so that that was really curious for me is, is why not write that Like it just almost seems like it’s in the pocket of what you teach, what you talk about, what you do. Why not write that book? And you can already answer, I guess, the why write worth it instead? Because you start pressed on that.
Brit Barron [00:05:17] Yeah, I mean, great question. And that is what all signs are pointing to. Maybe sort of take a quick peek. And, you know, I think you could probably relate to this as someone who has her hands in multiple cookie jars, I guess so to speak. I’ve always been passionate about diversity, equity, inclusion, anti-racism, but I didn’t want. I didn’t want to be put in that box and I didn’t want everything to stop. So I had this. It’s it’s sort of hard, like in the in this world of being your own creator and making a brand in a business to hold multiple things. But I think that’s something that I will fight for for the rest of my, my time on this earth is I I’m just a person who cares about multiple things. I mean, I want to be able to do that. And there’s a benefit to that. There’s also causes of that. Like if you find a niche and you just hit it hard, like I think. That is a fabulous journey for a lot of people. But yeah, the idea of being being pinned into that box early in my career wasn’t something I wanted.
Chandler Bolt [00:06:28] Oh, interesting. So what was your second book about?
Brit Barron [00:06:33] It’s so yeah, my second book is not fully in the in the dry space, but it is. It’s more social commentary in talking about how a little bit of a critique on cancel culture or some of these bigger ideas and more a look into is there a way where we can relearned how to make mistakes well. Is there a way where we can understand those six we’ve made? Does that change the way we interact with the world around us as it’s like changing radically, rapidly, rapidly, like. Yeah. So, yeah, that’s. That’s a good thing. Yeah.
Chandler Bolt [00:07:11] Have honest, difficult conversations and reflect on the mistakes that we’ve made.
Brit Barron [00:07:16] Yes, whatever. That’s good. Listen, if you get clear on your own journey, you’re going to have a lot more empathy to everyone you interact with.
Chandler Bolt [00:07:26] So yeah. So I want to go back to the Pigeonhole thing. Yeah. And I’m not trying to pin you down a this. Yeah, but I’m really just curious. Looking back, do you wish you would have wrote that book or do you have any plans to write that book in the future?
Brit Barron [00:07:48] Looking back now, I don’t wish I would have written it. I don’t know. I don’t have plans to read that specific book in the future, but I think it will be a part of books that I write. Like it’ll be a good it’ll be woven through this next book a lot. Yeah, I think there is. Hmm. There’s a. Like riding the side of a digital course in anti-racism understanding. It risks more. And that is a lot of what I what I want to contribute to the conversation at that time. In any event, currently is how do we create an onramp? Right. So it’s not the oh, I got my Ph.D. in critical race theory. It’s 1 to 1. If you are brand new to this conversation, you’re like, What’s happening on social media? I don’t understand these conversations happening. How can I talk about this or understand this? That’s the course for you. That’s the conversation. And I don’t know that I have felt the need to I don’t know, expand on that yet.
Chandler Bolt [00:08:56] School school. That’s why I keep asking questions about it’s not going to work. But it’s just so fascinating because I’m like, I’m on your side. And it’s like.
Brit Barron [00:09:05] Two.
Chandler Bolt [00:09:06] Years of experience in diversity inclusion I worked on. I created a 65 page guide. I’m like, That’s a book. And then I look through your courses and I’m like, Oh man, you got a whole course like that. Where when I feel like when someone has done the hard work of creating a course like they created, right? Yes. In the process of the course. And so that’s a that’s just a it’s really interesting. Yeah, it’s really it is. And because I almost feel like there’s two schools of thought, right? There’s like, all right, there’s the I don’t want to be labeled as that thing. And then there’s like, okay. Like double down on a specific thing and then use that thing as the springboard and.
Brit Barron [00:09:47] Exactly.
Chandler Bolt [00:09:47] Stealth.
Brit Barron [00:09:49] Yes.
Chandler Bolt [00:09:50] And I don’t know that either one is right. I feel like personally, my my, my perspective has been kind of like, hey, call me whatever you want as long as you call me. All right? If I can. If I can get really good at book stuff, why do I want to be doing that for the rest of my life? Maybe not, but I love books. But it’s like, all right, well, that’s a really specific skill that’s going to get. You know, it’s like you talk about what I’ve been doing for eight years. It’s like, all right, I’m answering the same questions. Oh, yeah. But also it’s like it’s a window into some of the smartest, most successful people because they’re creating books. It’s it’s like, all right. I feel like at a certain point I’ll be able to kind of if I want to piggyback that into something else. Oh, yeah I like that.
Brit Barron [00:10:33] That well, I think you’re completely right. And that is like, so my like day job, whatever that means, 100%. My wife and I work for the company that we’ve started, but I do like anti-racism, these counteracting bias, these trainings for organizations. So I mean, it is hilarious that that isn’t what I like. But there is this like, I don’t know if you can relate. There’s like there’s the entrepreneurial side of me who, like everything, is that I’m just like, absolutely. Like you find a layer and you become the expert in that line. You run with it, you go as far as you can, like, exactly Call me whatever you call me like, mate, like, is your money green? I like you, give you my client. And then there’s the, like, artist creative side of me that is like, I have to be free. I need to be a free bird. And they’re always just like, kind of going back and forth with each other.
Chandler Bolt [00:11:31] It and I think it’s it can be creatively constructive, right? And if you feel like that’s the book that you have to write with, then all of a sudden I’m not excited to write that book, I want to do. That is the book that everyone’s expecting me to write that I’ve already talked about for the last how many every year that whatever this is like, there’s no inspiration or pull to that thing, which I think can sometimes demotivate. Actually doing it.
Brit Barron [00:11:59] Yeah, totally.
Chandler Bolt [00:12:01] Really interesting. Well, let’s talk book number one. So worth it. Overcome your fears and embrace the life you’re made for. What did you do to successfully launched this book? I get a bunch of reviews. All that good stuff. Hmm.
Brit Barron [00:12:16] Yeah, well, it was really fun because it came out July 2020, so it was wild because it’s my first book. And so we do all of this work to like. Here’s the launch plan. We’re doing a book tour with Lululemon because I was like a partnership I had at the time. We’re going to be in like different stores all over the country are going to be like telling all these things. And then March 2020, you know, things shut down. It’s okay because it’s only two weeks. So by July, we’ll be up and running, you know, And so we kind of went back and forth like and then by May, we were like, I don’t think we’re going to. Get out of this any time soon. And so we did a full pivot, which was like. Fun and scary. But we had a so I have an email list, which is like I’m sure a lot of our listeners know, like email lists are the way to go. And so weekly email and so through my email list I did like promoting, I wrote like kind of. Close to launch. I wrote a bonus chapter, gave out to anyone who wanted to be a part of my email list. Then did a launch team out of the email lists, gave them access to. We just did some like video chats online, some fun things, asked everyone in the launch team and on my email list to review it the week it came out. And then I pivoted the tour to like a digital podcast tour. So just everyone on the podcast asked, you know, can I be ironic? I talk about the saying and sort of promoted that way, which was great, and I’m excited to see what a non quarantine book launch is like. But it was, I think I’ll always think fondly of, of that launch and that time.
Chandler Bolt [00:14:12] It worked the best were well I know it’s got some hard to track book sales and Amazon doesn’t tell you all the data and all this stuff but was there anything that you felt like moves the most books?
Brit Barron [00:14:24] Yeah, good question. I think to be honest. So you already know that your your people are going to buy the book. So like, you know, you’re the launch team, your email list, you’re the people you’re in. I think what worked the best outside of that were definitely podcast, just like getting my name and having good conversations and then like speaking speaking gigs. So. I feel like I’ve been speaking a lot longer than I’ve been writing, and so I feel confident. If I can get in front of an audience, I’ll be able to, you know, create some some friends who would who would want to support. And so I think those are the two big. Biggest, just being able to have a conversation in front of someone. I feel like really move the needle beyond just the people who already like you already like you’re cool.
Chandler Bolt [00:15:15] I like that. You talking about speed speaking skills and and how that’s, you know, kind of bread and butter. This is where I’ll go back to the Asterix earlier. The pen we put in there. So speaking got your first book deal. And obviously, you know, back in the day, you were a pastor at a big church at a young age, 26. I’ve always like kind of thought because obviously I grew up in the church as well and. And two perspectives, like my brother plays in a Grammy nominated rock and roll band. And the band started in the church and says, like, it’s like playing a concert every week. And there’s so many bands that come out of churches. But then also, you know, I’ve always thought that, like being a pastor is like the Super Bowl of public speaking, because every single week you’ve got to come up with a new message and that’s football is 45 minutes. You’ve got to engage an audience. You probably have no slides and it’s from scratch and you’ve got six days to create the next one. And so it’s just like the level of content creation and speaking ability and all the things that that it’s just it’s a whole, you know, like an incubator almost of that so long preamble to ask about, like, how do you feel like your time as a pastor helped you become a better writer and a better speaker?
Brit Barron [00:16:43] Oh, I mean, yeah, everything you said like that. You know, I think we know this as like you watch American Idol or like some of the greats like Whitney Houston started singing in church, like all these people. It’s like, you know, that that is in itself and give it. And I think everything you said is true. By the time I started speaking at like conferences or doing keynotes for organizations, I already had my 10000 hours plus like the reps that you get. I think, you know, I used to do like speaker coaching. And what’s hard. I mean, there are tips and tools and things you can do. But the number one thing by far that will make you a better speaker is speaking. And so you’ve got to see what works and find your cadence and find your pace. And so I think being a pastor, especially like starting young and getting all those reps in it, just there’s there’s few other experiences in the world that could give you that kind of time to a craft than that. And so definitely super grateful for that experience. And it absolutely made me the communicator I am today.
Chandler Bolt [00:17:54] Hmm. Do you feel like there’s any crossover with writing or do you think it’s strictly speaking? Like. Like meaning? Did all that predominantly help you when you have to go give a talk? Because, I mean, obviously you gave that talk. The acquisition age is there to see someone else sees. You said, hey, this is interesting. This is you on a book. You say, I don’t want to do that idea. And they say, all right, well, yeah, we’ll do this other I left a Great Depression. So the speaking crossover is there. Do you think there’s any crossover with the writing? Like, have you seen ways that your writing is better because you spoke?
Brit Barron [00:18:30] Yeah, I think so. I think if you can if you can find the discipline to be able to generate ideas, string them together, communicate them, maybe you could do that through your voice. You could do that through the written word, not tit for tat. Obviously there’s different sort of skills, but like one thing I do that is just helpful in the writing process is like, I have like order, like the dictation thing and I’ll just like walk around like my neighborhood talking out loud because it’s like sometimes easier to get my brain going, talking, and then I’ll go back and, you know, sort of fill in the blanks. So I think, you know. Different forms of communication require different disciplines. But I think if you can do one well, it’s a really good start.
Chandler Bolt [00:19:18] Hmm. Nice. And have you have you spoken any of parts of your book? Like is that a process that you do or, you know, see, hey, I want to sit down and actually write it out.
Brit Barron [00:19:28] I’ll speak some of them, especially if I get if I get stuck, then I yeah, I take my phone and I’ll just talk to myself as I walk around. I live by the Rose Bowl here in L.A. and it’s like a three mile loop. And literally you’ll see me. There are a lot of days just talking to myself as I walk around trying to, like, work through an idea.
Chandler Bolt [00:19:52] Yeah. And is do you have any rhyme or reason for that? Is it all right? Hey, I’ve got some notes or some thoughts. Is it? Hey, just press record. How do you do that in a way that’s effective for you?
Brit Barron [00:20:05] Yeah, it’s my go to if I am writing and I get stuck, which is like, pretty common for me of like, I start to really like, I have an idea. And then as I’m writing it out sometimes, like, confused myself or, like, I’ll just I’m like, Does this make sense? It’s not working, but I know that I could explain it to someone and that’s always my sort of like POV. If I’m walking like I’m pretending like I’m trying to explain this to someone. And so usually the, the prompts for like walking and talking is like, I’m stuck. I need to think through an idea. I need to pretend like I’m explaining it and move my body as I’m doing it. Sort of get, get the stuckness out of my myself, if that makes sense.
Chandler Bolt [00:20:53] Cool. Got it. Let’s talk about forwards. So you got obviously, with your first book, you got Rachel Hollis. How do you do that? And maybe also more importantly. Any tips for people? Because I feel like it’s every author’s dream, right? Is like I got the famous forward. Yeah. Like someone dared to write the foreword for my book. So, yeah, I had to do it. Any tips or recommendations for people?
Brit Barron [00:21:25] Yeah, well, I asked. Yeah, it’s just. Oh, gosh, I know. You know. Well, I will. Rachel is a friend of mine, and so that that one was was sort of easier in that I had a personal connection. But even in asking for the forward for my second book was less connected to the person. And truly what’s funny is so these are I don’t know what I’m allowed to even say, so I’m not gonna say what it is. But he’s very successful, like three New York Times bestsellers, like. And he said no one had ever asked him to write a foreword before because I was like, hey, like, you know, I really, really like this. And my editor really thinks this will be really good. I kind of like pinned it on him. I was like, And he was like, Oh, sure. He’s like, No, they’re asking me. So I don’t know. Like, what? And I’m like, Cool. Like, it was very it was very funny. I mean, and so I think when you think about words, I think we think that people are like, cons are getting bombarded, but I really don’t think they are like, I have come across a lot of sort of kind people and especially in book world like. Big celebrities are so different than regular is like some of your favorite authors. You probably wouldn’t recognize them walking down the street. You know what I mean? So, like, they’re not these people who are being constantly bombarded for, like, photos and like. Yeah, I think it’s it’s generally kind of like very a compliment to to reach out and say like, hey, you know, I’m really a big fan. Here’s what I’m thinking. Like, here’s the book I sent the book proposal, like. Yeah. So the kind of here’s why I feel like you would prefer forward like and you know. Yeah.
Chandler Bolt [00:23:14] So personalizing it to them, giving them some context. Did you do anything there? Anything else that made it easier for this person, this mystery? Three times. New York Times. Yeah. Did you do anything else that made it easier for them to say yes?
Brit Barron [00:23:30] Yeah, I told I so. I got for my I don’t know, that’s on my head. But from the publisher I was like, what is the average word count that you’d be asking for? And I gave that up from because I remember it being like, low, low. And I know that was I can’t remember what it was like an.
Chandler Bolt [00:23:47] Thousand.
Brit Barron [00:23:47] Words or something. Yeah, like literally a thousand like 1500 words. Like very chill.
Chandler Bolt [00:23:51] Yeah.
Brit Barron [00:23:52] Yeah. And so I think that in there too, because I don’t want to make it seem like, Hey, can you give me 5000 words at your earliest convenience? You know, so. So I just gave, like, all that information of, like, it’d be like a thousand words, like, and then left it to Roman. Like, if. If it’s too much, like, no big deal. But then, yeah. And then I sent whenever I, like, ask someone to You probably do this to, like, even asking people to review my book or even for my book proposal. I had a big section like what people are saying about Brit, where I reached out to Alex. What would you maybe you could say something like this and then would give them a blurb that they could just like edit into their own, like since they wanted just a really low barrier to entry. If you’re asking someone will, you know, is very busy to, to do something for you, just give them as much information as you can, make it as easy as possible.
Chandler Bolt [00:24:44] The smirk and and sometimes when I’ve seen people doing what I’ve done and as well as just give people multiple options, hey, here’s three options for blurbs. You can choose one, none of them. You can blend in, but at least it’s one last step that the person has to take for an endorsement or a review or something like that.
Brit Barron [00:25:03] Exactly. Yeah.
Chandler Bolt [00:25:05] So you’re in the middle of book two. What are the biggest lesson learned from book to do? You see, I guess you’re in the middle of the writing, so there will be, I’m sure, marketing lessons on down the road. But as far as the from to where you’re at now, where kind of the biggest lessons and things you’re doing differently with book two?
Brit Barron [00:25:25] Well, the biggest thing I did differently from the start is I got an agent, a literary agent, which a lot of people recommended for Book one. But I was like, I don’t know, I like the and I would do probably the same again. But that was fun because that’s a complete different experience. So for book number two, I actually shopped, I talked to multiple publishers, which is not something I did in book one. I just one person asked me and I was like, Sure, yeah. You know, absolutely. And so the go to being like, Oh my gosh, I’m kind of like out here, like, you know. Taking multiple phone calls, really begging them, but still with multiple well-wishers. Yeah. Like, wow. Right. Famous. But then you got to realize, like, it’s kind of a normal part of the process. And that’s what sort of having an agent will help you accomplish. And so that was fun because it forced me to write a far more in-depth proposal for book number two, way more time spent in that in that arena. And I would do. I’ll do that again for every book. And so now I’m in the middle of the writing and it’s just like, you know, you get a certain part of the writing. You’re like, Why did I why did I agree to do this? But it’s still very happy to have those people alive, but currently also writing it.
Chandler Bolt [00:26:53] I love being yourself.
Brit Barron [00:26:55] Yeah, exactly. I don’t know at this point. It’s really it’s either I.
Chandler Bolt [00:27:01] Tell you this, you might get a kick out of this. This is my new book published. It’s and this is not a concept to me, but it’s kind of fun to retell it. But it’s like the creative is the creative process, right where it starts out. This is going to be awesome. This is hard. This is terrible. I’m terrible. Hey, not bad. That was awesome. And I feel like the person you’re at, like, the messy middle of writing is kind of like that. This is terrible. I’m terrible person right there.
Brit Barron [00:27:28] I’m right there. My wife keeps walking. By the way that I was writing it. She was like, They’re going good. And I was like, No. And she was like, okay, I’m going upstairs. I was like, Right, yeah, yeah. It’s just unfortunately, I was just talking to my therapist about this and I was like, Writing isn’t hard writing not hard. It’s everything that surrounds the writing. It’s the mental gymnastics that you have to do to, like, quiet the voices, get yourself down, feel all those things. And she was like, Do you think maybe that is just a part of the writing? And I’m like, Oh God, probably you’re probably exactly right.
Chandler Bolt [00:28:11] She’s like, How do I do that? Less problems.
Brit Barron [00:28:15] Right. It’s not helpful.
Chandler Bolt [00:28:18] I think.
Brit Barron [00:28:19] It really think about what is.
Chandler Bolt [00:28:21] The part of the writing now that you’re writing.
Brit Barron [00:28:24] Exactly. But I’m like, I think it is. There’s hmm. If you don’t go on that little the exactly from your book where you just showed if you’re not on that. Sort of on a constant loop, basically. Then I don’t know that you’re writing the thing that you really need to write.
Chandler Bolt [00:28:40] Yeah, it’s a creative process. Right. Yeah.
Brit Barron [00:28:44] Hmm. Love to hate it.
Chandler Bolt [00:28:45] I guess. I can’t remember. It was either on the podcast or he came and spoke at our conference. But he. He said this. I think it was him that said this quote, It was. I don’t like writing, but I like having written.
Brit Barron [00:29:00] Oh, literally. Yes, yes.
Chandler Bolt [00:29:04] Yes. It. Yeah.
Brit Barron [00:29:07] Oh, it’s the same with like I don’t like working out, but I love having gone to the gym.
Chandler Bolt [00:29:13] Yes.
Brit Barron [00:29:15] But that first 5 minutes, they’re like, What am I doing?
Chandler Bolt [00:29:19] Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Well, this has been fantastic, Brit. Well, what would you say is kind of your party piece of advice to the Brit from. You know, a few years ago before you wrote your first book and all the other Brits out there who and not people from the UK, but the people named for you were writing their first book. What would be kind of your parting piece of advice?
Brit Barron [00:29:41] Oh, I would just say figure out what’s important to you. And then take the path. That allows that to be true. So I don’t think there’s any rulebook. There’s not one right way to publish. There’s not one. Right, right, right. There’s not one right way to get it out there. So whatever is most important to you, if it’s the content, if it’s the visuals of it, whatever is the most important. Take the path that lets that be true.
Chandler Bolt [00:30:11] Love it. Well, Brit, it’s been awesome. Where can people go to buy your book.
Brit Barron [00:30:17] And.
Chandler Bolt [00:30:18] Check out more about what you’re up to? Whatever will be most helpful for for people to go.
Brit Barron [00:30:23] Yeah. So you can get my book basically anywhere books are sold. It’s called Worth It. You can find me on the Internet’s on Instagram at there in one T into Ars or my website britbarron.com.
Chandler Bolt [00:30:40] Right there in that term. Check out the book is called Worth It Overcome Your Fears and Embrace the Life You Were made For. Or you can just find her on the Internet and yes.
Brit Barron [00:30:53] Anywhere on the World Wide Web.
Chandler Bolt [00:30:56] Thank you, Brit. This is awesome.
Brit Barron [00:30:58] Thank you.